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Wulfthang
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018
Posts: 840
Location: Tucson
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 Posted: Yesterday 7:41 am Post subject: Spare Distributor???? |
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I've done a fair amount of off roading from Florida damp lands to Arizona deserts in Baja bugs, 4 x 4 trucks and now my Rat Rod Trail Rail. There have been a few times when I broke down in the boonies and had to make trail side repairs or stopped to help some other person out.
Fellow off roaders were always kind of surprised at the amount of tools and spare parts that I carry around in my car. I carry a lot of normal stuff but also some odd ball stuff like a tire repair kit including Starter Fluid to re-seat a tire, emergency tire valve stems, oil filter and hoses, wire, coil, alternator and carb and starter rebuild kits, Quick epoxy, spare CV and grease, etc. etc. etc.
But, why carry a whole complete distributor? Why not just a few internal parts in a can. I've read several posts here about people carrying a spare distributor and am wondering why? Are VW distributors that bad? I never had a problem with them. What's the reason to carry a spare one? |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79240
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Yesterday 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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If you have a complete distributor that already has the clamp on and was previously timed, it's an easy swap and you're back on the road.
Instead of replacing the points and needing a dwell meter and possibly a timing light, you just remove the 13mm nut, holding the clamp, remove the old distributor, install the new one, reinstall the nut and you're on your way.
It takes about 2 minutes... if you're slow.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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Wulfthang
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018
Posts: 840
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Yesterday 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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You can set the points gap on a distributor not installed but how do you set the timing before installing it?
Swapping out points is no big deal and does not require a timing light or a dwell meter to get it running again. Install the points and set the gap with a feeler gauge. If it was timed before, it'll be close enough to start and get you home.
You can even time it on the side of the trail if you want to by listening for the spark. Pull the coil wire to prevent any kick in the engine and then turn it over with a wrench with the ignition on. Set the coil wire so the spark will jump to ground. Rotate the engine so the number one cylinder is ready to fire, then adjust the distributor so it fires at that point. The spark snap is the timing point.
Are VW distributors really that unreliable that you have to carry a spare? Has anybody every actually broken a distributor? |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79240
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Yesterday 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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| Wulfthang wrote: |
| You can set the points gap on a distributor not installed but how do you set the timing before installing it? |
That's why you install a second clamp and "pre time" it, but installing it, setting the timing and removing it with the clamp still in place.
| Wulfthang wrote: |
| You can even time it on the side of the trail if you want to by listening for the spark. |
Timing by "ear" is foolish, you can set the advance to high and cook your engine.
| Wulfthang wrote: |
| Are VW distributors really that unreliable that you have to carry a spare? Has anybody every actually broken a distributor? |
I'd as that 99% of VW owners either have a 50+ year old distributor that has never been serviced or rebuild... or they have a cheap aftermarket one that is of poor quality and have a reputation of failing.
Hey... it's your car, do what you want.
Personally, I don't carry a spare. Mine was rebuilt and I maintain my car. I can count, one one hand, the number of times I broke down and i've owned it for 50+ years.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5528
Location: Lefty, CA
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Wulfthang
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018
Posts: 840
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Yesterday 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Wulfthang wrote: |
| You can set the points gap on a distributor not installed but how do you set the timing before installing it? |
That's why you install a second clamp and "pre time" it, but installing it, setting the timing and removing it with the clamp still in place.
| Wulfthang wrote: |
| You can even time it on the side of the trail if you want to by listening for the spark. |
Timing by "ear" is foolish, you can set the advance to high and cook your engine.
| Wulfthang wrote: |
| Are VW distributors really that unreliable that you have to carry a spare? Has anybody every actually broken a distributor? |
I'd as that 99% of VW owners either have a 50+ year old distributor that has never been serviced or rebuild... or they have a cheap aftermarket one that is of poor quality and have a reputation of failing.
Hey... it's your car, do what you want.
Personally, I don't carry a spare. Mine was rebuilt and I maintain my car. I can count, one one hand, the number of times I broke down and i've owned it for 50+ years. |
Ok, the fifty plus year old and probably not rebuilt distributor explains it perfectly. I can understand that. I didn't know that you could time one and remove/install it and keep the timing. Is it accurate enough to within a degree?
Regarding "timing by ear": I guess you didn't understand my description of "spark timing". The engine is NOT running. The coil wire is removed and set so the spark can jump to ground. The engine is turned over by hand in the direction of normal travel to just before Number One cylinder is supposed to fire.
The ignition is turned on. Turn the engine over by hand and watch the timing marks. The coil should fire when they line up properly. If not, adjust the distributor. The ignition is on but the engine is not running and can not run because the coil wire is dangling. The only "ear work" is listening for the spark snap. It's exactly the same as using a timing light except you hear the spark instead of seeing it.
Since we're talking about timing, here's a neat little trick. We all know that point gap affects timing. As the rubbing block wears down, the timing retards. On the other hand, timing has zero affect on point gap.
Set your point gap perfectly and then set your timing perfectly. Use a Dwell meter for the point gap unless you're good with feeler gauges. After that, you can replace the points and as long as you set the gap to exactly what it should be per your specs, the timing will always be perfect. (Old pit crew trick from back when engines were non computerized)
I was just curious is why I asked about it. I've had several VW's over the years and never saw the need to carry a spare distributor. Thing is, my VW's were only ten or fifteen years old back then and not needing rebuilding. My current car is my Rat Rod Trail Rail and it's powered by a Ford V6. The distributor is fairly fresh. |
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14559
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Yesterday 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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If you have an original German distributor in good nick there is absolutely no need to carry a spare. Points wear slowly and give lots of warning. I have only experienced a condenser fail once and all that happened was that it slowly ruined the points over a couple of weeks of daily driving. Again lots of warning.
I have driven for years and continue to drive these old VWs without a spare. This Distributor failure paranoia was unheard of until the electronic Chinese replacements hit the street.
The only time I carried a spare was when took my first 10 hour trip after I changed over to crank trigger ignition. I was told it was not necessary and it was true. Now I no longer do!
By the way Wulfthang I am totally with you on setting points and hand tuning the timing. Been there, done that many times in the past and it is surprising how close it is when the timing light is applied! I would not recommend it as a general practice but it will get you by just fine in a pinch.
To you "preset and plug in" guys, no that is not accurate! There is enough slop in the hole for the stud and 13mm nut that you need to put a timing light on it anyway to get it right!
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Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old! |
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tasb
The Distributor Distributor
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 6672
Location: Pentwater, Michigan
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| Posted: Yesterday 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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There was nothing wrong or inaccurate with your description of timing by ear with the engine static. It is reliably accurate when done with a verified original maintained distributor. Carrying a spare distributor is done out of an over abundance of caution. The only times Iâve done it is when Iâm on a pilgrimage of 1000 miles or more.
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1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018
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Last edited by tasb on Yesterday 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BFB
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2014
Posts: 2520
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| Posted: Yesterday 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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nice thread!
and I think Oprn is right, ive had both electronic and points go out and it is nice that points typically give some warning.
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Wulfthang
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018
Posts: 840
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Yesterday 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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My current ignition system is a hybrid. It's a Mallory dual point distributor but only working on one set of points. The other set is there just not hooked up. (Spare parts) The points trigger a Crane Cams CDI booster. The points only carry a few milli-amps of power so the points never wear, only the rubbing block.
The CDI Booster carry's all of the load that the points used to carry and breaks cleaner for a better trigger pulse. It boosts the spark going to the coil. The coil is a Mallory Super Coil. The spark is clean and impressive.
If the electronics fail, I can flip a switch and remove the electronics from the system so it's just a standard points type ignition. Of course, the massive coil will cause my points to burn out quick but it would get me home. |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5528
Location: Lefty, CA
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indianpeaksjoe
Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2017
Posts: 603
Location: Moab, UT
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| Posted: Today 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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I have a pertronix dist and do not carry a spare. I regularly go about 10 miles from the nearest paved road in the desert.
I couldn't time one by ear or eye without a light, so I carry cold water and a backpack to start hiking 
But do whatever you want, carry a distributor, carry an axle, carry an extra seat, do whatever makes you happy. None of this hurts anybody.
-Joe
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Wulfthang
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2018
Posts: 840
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Today 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Spare Distributor???? |
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| indianpeaksjoe wrote: |
But do whatever you want, carry a distributor, carry an axle, carry an extra seat, do whatever makes you happy. None of this hurts anybody.
-Joe |
If you think some offroaders are a little nuts about carrying spare parts, you should watch some SCUBA divers getting ready for a dive. Good Gawd!!! Talk about spares! All of us carry a spare regulator (Octo) and a line cutter or two. I admit that I'm a little crazy when it comes to line cutters and knives. I saw a guy get hooked by trolling lure one time and it was horrible. I carry three of four line cutters and two knives but some of those people carry crap that's ridiculous.
A spare computer for decomps? Learn the friggin' dive tables!! A spare mask? What happened to your old one? A spare mask strap? Why? Your mask won't fall off anyway! Three light beacons? Huh? You won't survive long enough to run one set of batteries down!
Evaluate your odds of getting in trouble depending on the conditions in that area and plan accordingly. |
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