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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3234
Location: Vermont
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 Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:19 pm Post subject: Best way to protect floor pans |
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I'm looking for some advice for preserving original floor pans. My 68 Karmann Ghia convertible is a very dry and well preserved survivor. It's mostly all original, with original paint so I only want to continue to preserve it. The original tar boards on the floor have never been lifted but I can see very minor surface rust on the exposed areas of the floor pans so I think it would make sense to look under the tar boards. But preserving originality is important to me.
The tar boards seem very well stuck on but I've not attempted to lift them yet. Do they usually come up without damage? I would peel the tar boards off, clean up the pans and protect them.
I don't expect to find any serious rust so I can wire brush where needed. I'm thinking of treating with phosphoric acid, then paint that would match the factory appearance. Under the back seat looks perfect. The rust colored areas under the back seat are actually glue for the tar pads.
I'm also considering just looking under the tar boards and leaving the floor as is if there's no real rust damage since this car never sees water, I don't even use a hose when I wash it.
Any ideas or opinions?
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79243
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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Scuff them, apply a rust converter and top coat with some POR15 paint.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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Murdlem
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 522
Location: Port Angeles, Washington
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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My 68, also very dry, has the original tarboards like the OP photos above. I am planning to keep them for sound deadening purposes.
My experience with tarboards is that they typically don't come up in 1 piece.
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Eric Meldrum
68 Ghia
Check out my blog. https://vwlifenet.wordpress.com/ |
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obus
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2001
Posts: 11539
Location: just off Garden State Parkway Exit 81
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11181
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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I would pull them.
I,donât know how many a Ghias Iâve seen at the shop that it looks like the pans are good, but when you pull up the tar boards there is deep rot in the valleys between the pressings in the floor. Water collects there and rots the pans from the inside out.
The sound board seemed to be attached by tar. I wonder if you could heat the floor up with a torch to soften the tar and then pull 5hem off?
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79243
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| I wonder if you could heat the floor up with a torch to soften the tar and then pull 5hem off? |
Heat gun, you don't want to use a flame.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
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sputnick60
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 22, 2007
Posts: 4102
Location: In Molinya Orbit
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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Here are photos, some previously unpublished, of my dry climate cabriolet with the floor pulled up. The area around back was the worst though it looked OK to begin with.
I used an electric heat gun to loosen the tar boards. Don' t use a flame here. This is old school bitumen which burns in a sooty flame. I was keen to reuse all the original pieces. The heat made it easy to lift them off in good shape.
Underneath there was a fair bit of rust, the worst was in the well behind the front seats. I decided to not replace the pans because the rest of it was quite good. However there were some pock marks and holes. These were fixed by applying welds and filling the deepest pits and closing off all the holes. A bright light underneath was good enough to reveal the holes
The view of the pan is telling where the worst rust is at the lowest part of the floor
The pan was alkaline dipped to remove all the old paint and then coated in etch primer.
The it was painted with a couple of coats of black epoxy.
Finally, I used a heat gun to melt the tar and make it black again. It came out like new. I was able to reuse the section over the tunnel and the pieces along the back. To make them clean I just used roofing bitumen and melted that into the orignal boards. With a fair amount of heat the tar wetted everything, including the dirt to a deep black.
I substituted the tar boards under the carpet by cutting some thin bitumen fibreboard to shape and glued dense padding also cut to match. I haven't used tar boards because it's a Cabriolet and when it rains water always gets in.
Nicholas
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'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
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metz
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2005
Posts: 289
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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The tar boards are easy to remove when whats beneath look like this 
Exactly what Braukuche described.
If it's rusty, you might need to scrape the underside too to know if you have holes or not. Underbody protection will hide them.
Don't ask me how many hours I've spent on this.
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68 panel
64 ghia coupe |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3234
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:58 am Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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Awesome feedback! I have a much better idea how to proceed. I am definitely going to pull up the tar boards as soon as the weather warms up a little. Vermont offers a very short driving season and I'm really looking forward to getting back on the road so I don't want to loose any driving time! 
Thank you all for this great feedback
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3234
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:09 am Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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| sputnick60 wrote: |
Here are photos, some previously unpublished, of my dry climate cabriolet with the floor pulled up. The area around back was the worst though it looked OK to begin with.
I used an electric heat gun to loosen the tar boards. Don' t use a flame here. This is old school bitumen which burns in a sooty flame. I was keen to reuse all the original pieces. The heat made it easy to lift them off in good shape.
Underneath there was a fair bit of rust, the worst was in the well behind the front seats. I decided to not replace the pans because the rest of it was quite good. However there were some pock marks and holes. These were fixed by applying welds and filling the deepest pits and closing off all the holes. A bright light underneath was good enough to reveal the holes
The view of the pan is telling where the worst rust is at the lowest part of the floor
The pan was alkaline dipped to remove all the old paint and then coated in etch primer.
The it was painted with a couple of coats of black epoxy.
Finally, I used a heat gun to melt the tar and make it black again. It came out like new. I was able to reuse the section over the tunnel and the pieces along the back. To make them clean I just used roofing bitumen and melted that into the original boards. With a fair amount of heat the tar wetted everything, including the dirt to a deep black.
I substituted the tar boards under the carpet by cutting some thin bitumen fiber board to shape and glued dense padding also cut to match. I haven't used tar boards because it's a Cabriolet and when it rains water always gets in.
Nicholas |
Nicholas, thank you for all the detailed instructions and pictures. So very helpful.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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AmandaCB
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2024
Posts: 32
Location: Corpus Christi, Tx
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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My 73 barn find "looked" like the pans were in good shape. But in the interest of doing it right the first time I took up the tar boards. We're now in the process of replacing the pans in some places. Even on the side that looked like it was perfectly okay had some major rust damage. It's best to take the tar boards off - I had no luck with a heat gun, it just made it sticky. A putty knife with a sharpened edge worked best. Then a solid grinding with a wheel cup or wire wheel attached to an angle grinder, paint with at least two coats of POR 15. Don't forget the underside! Worth it in the long run (is what I keep telling myself lol)
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Amanda
1973 Ghia coupe one owner barn find
2022 Countryman S
Previous toys:
2015 ZL1 - ran 165mph standing mile @ Texas Mile
2018 ZL1 - ran 175mph standing mile @ Texas Mile |
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Era Vulgaris
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2012
Posts: 1893
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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When I pulled the tar boards out of the 67 I used to own, the floors looked terrible. But I took a wire wheel to them and then sprayed them with rustoleum. You can see the before and after in one pic.
I didn't bother saving them, and tossed them. That car was just a driver and not as nice and original as yours. I wouldn't put those water sponges back into a car, personally. But if you don't even use water to clean your car, you should be ok.
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Currently own:
66 Karmann Ghia, L390 Gulf Blue, under construction, here: www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=760505&highlight=
99 Mazda MX-5 10AE, Sapphire Blue Mica, 6 speed, LSD
Previously owned:
98 Porsche Boxster, silver, 2.5L -- 67 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1500sp -- 98 BMW Z3, Atlanta Blue Metallic, 2.8L I6 -- 75 Porsche 914, Laguna Blue, 2270cc -- 72 Porsche 914, Signal Orange, 1.7 FI -- 74 Karmann Ghia, Black, 1600dp -- 74 Triumph TR6 with O.D., sapphire blue |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3234
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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| AmandaCB wrote: |
| My 73 barn find "looked" like the pans were in good shape. But in the interest of doing it right the first time I took up the tar boards. We're now in the process of replacing the pans in some places. Even on the side that looked like it was perfectly okay had some major rust damage. It's best to take the tar boards off - I had no luck with a heat gun, it just made it sticky. A putty knife with a sharpened edge worked best. Then a solid grinding with a wheel cup or wire wheel attached to an angle grinder, paint with at least two coats of POR 15. Don't forget the underside! Worth it in the long run (is what I keep telling myself lol) |
Thank you Amanda. I'm definitely going to pull up the tar boards and see what needs attention. This car spent most of it's life in dry storage so hopefully the pans won't need Repair.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3234
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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| Era Vulgaris wrote: |
When I pulled the tar boards out of the 67 I used to own, the floors looked terrible. But I took a wire wheel to them and then sprayed them with rustoleum. You can see the before and after in one pic.
I didn't bother saving them, and tossed them. That car was just a driver and not as nice and original as yours. I wouldn't put those water sponges back into a car, personally. But if you don't even use water to clean your car, you should be ok. |
I recall reading a thread where someone put the tar boards in but some how they were left removable. I need to search for that thread. I like the idea of being able to lift the tar boards in the future.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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owokie
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2003
Posts: 570
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| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2024 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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Surprised nobody has given you the correct answer yet. Best way to protect the floor pans? Move out of Vermont.
You're welcome. |
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3234
Location: Vermont
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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| owokie wrote: |
Surprised nobody has given you the correct answer yet. Best way to protect the floor pans? Move out of Vermont.
You're welcome. |
😂. That would offer numerous other benefits too. Like longer driving season.
_________________
Marc
68 Karmann Ghia Cabrio Autostick
71 Karmann Ghia Cabrio
Previously Owned:
2011 VW EOS Hard Top Conv
2008 Saab 9-3 2.0T Conv
2003 Saab 9-3 SE Conv
2001 Saab 9-3 Conv
1998 BMW 3 Series Conv
1997 Saab 900 Conv
1997 Mazda Miata
68 Ghia Vert Survivor with 22,350 miles: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768107&highlight=
71 Ghia Vert Restoration: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726710&postorder=asc |
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cyclonehol77
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2024
Posts: 5
Location: CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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Removing the tar board is a total chore and it comes off bit by bit so expect to put in a couple days and know you will end up destroying it. I used a couple of cheap putty knives from Harbor Freight and paint stripper (ventilate) and wear hand protection. Keep a plastic trash bag near you to deposit all the sticky tar pieces into. Sadly, the pan seems to always look worse when you reveal it. Then use a wire brush attachment or die grinder with a course pad and clean it up and treat the rusted areas that are beyond surface rust with a rust gel or rust converter.
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Marcdeb
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2019
Posts: 3234
Location: Vermont
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todmeg
Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: new jersey
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| Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2024 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to protect floor pans |
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You all have a lot more patience than I do. I stripped my floors to metal. Threw away all the destroyed tar boards. Cleaned, treated and sealed the metal. Then, I put two layers of the "sticky on one side, shin silver on the other side" material to help deaden road noise. While I was at it, I put that sound material everywhere between me and the outside- inside the doors, kick panels, both sides of the firewall, inside rear fenders behind the rear interior panels. you name it. I know a noisy car is part of the VW gig, but in my older (6 age, I am starting to like quiet. Even swapped out the glass pack for a throaty sounding Dynomax Turbo muffler. Sounds pretty good but if I still want to hear some noise, I just get on it.
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